Friends cannot replace God.  They have limitations and weaknesses like we have.  Their love is never faultless, never complete.  But in their limitations they can be signposts on our journey towards the unlimited and unconditional love of God.  Let’s enjoy the friends whom God has sent on our way.” - Henri Nouwen

JR: What do you expect will be the biggest critique of your book and why?

Mark: Mmm good question. I would like to think that people might have a problem with me using Jack Kerouac as a motif throughout the book considering how he is viewed both by Christians and those outside of the Church but if I am honest I think that it will be another issue that touches on Church. In the book I ask the question “what if the problem is us not the Church?’, I make the case that our expectations of church historically have been rather low, yet in our day we expect Church to meet every need, to blow our minds, I see this across the board in mega churches, but also in small missional churches, in new reformed Churches. When I have raised this questions as I have gone around people are shocked. Lots of Christians have invested heavily in the whole ‘Church is bad’ message, so when I put it back on us people can get very defensive. A whole industry has sprung up alongside the evangelical subculture which essentially critiques the movement yet is dependent upon it for life. I call it the deconstructive christian movement. It is big on critique but small on solution. It plays well to those raised in the evangelical heartland but does not resonate with those who are truly multi-generationaly removed from the Church. We are entering a post-secular moment which if we will miss if are not attentive, I am trying to address that, so those who are tied up in deconstructive Christianity can often miss what I am trying to say.

JR: Finally, much of the book addresses American culture, yet you live in Australia. Why did you feel the need to address such American themes.

Mark: Well firstly the ideas for this book came to me during two speaking trips to the US. As I was traveling I realized that two missionary movements have come out of the US. The first is the Christian missionary movement, the US has sent an incredible amount of missionaries throughout the world, through media and publishing the Christian US voice dominates the global Christian conversation. Yet at the same time, the US has exported another gospel, another form of good news. A hedonistic, individualist approach to life, which I term ‘The Road’ At the end of world war two Europe lost its place of cultural influence, it had been bombed to pieces and had reached this nihilistic place philosophically. After the war the US stepped into the breech, exporting to the world through popular culture a sunnier, sexier version of nihilism, which would shape the baby boomers. If you look at the stats in most Western countries the rapid decline of the Church occurred in the sixties when the boomers entered into adulthood. So I felt like a good detective I had to return to the scene of the crime to try and work out what had happened.

I think you will find Mark’s book a fascinating read.  You can order it from Amazon at a great savings right now.  Hope you enjoyed the interview.

HT: BetterPhoto.com

Christ

Originally uploaded by Carlos Domingues

Holy God,
you have called us to follow in the way of your risen Son,
and to care for those who are our companions,
not only with words of comfort, but with acts of love.
Seeking to be true friends of all,
we offer our prayers on behalf of the church and the world.

Guide us in the path of discipleship,
so that, as you have blessed us,
we may be a blessing for others,
bringing the promise of the kingdom near
by our words and deeds. Amen.

JR:  What was the most difficult part of writing this book?

Mark: The first big challenge writing this book was the practical challenges. My wife gave birth to twins, I faced some health challenges, my Church went through a real season of growth all at the time that I was writing this book. I look back and still don’t know how I did it. God was good, and his promise that when I am weak He is strong was so true for the writing of this book.

The book was challenging on an emotional front, two of the main lives it explored that of novelist Jack Keroauc and Japanese Christian and victim of the atomic attack upon Nagasaki, Takashi Nagai. When you explore lives in such depth you feel like you know them, when I came to writing about their deaths it was a strangely emotional experience. Being the father of small kids writing about Nagai’s last moments was especially moving.

I think also the great challenge of writing this book was holding together such huge themes, the book dips into theology, history, literature, film, art, and sociology so it was a real challenge to weave all those themes into strands of narrative, so it was great to see it all finally come together.

JR:  What are your hopes for the book?

Mark:  I really do hope that this book helps people see their lives their faith and the sweep of contemporary Western culture in a whole new way. I particularly hope that many who are caught up on ‘the road’ find in the book an escape from the incessant moving, and psychic homelessness of The Road. I also hope that I by writing this book, I have provided a compelling and engaging resource for those who do not have the time to research Western culture in depth. I would love for this book to be a cultural handbook for missionaries to the West.

Tune in next week for the final part of our interview with Mark, and pick up his book, if you haven’t yet.

God is a generous giver, but we can only see and enjoy God’s generosity when we love God with all of our hearts, minds, and strength.  As long as we say, “I will love you, God, but first show me your generosity,” we will remain distant from God and unable to experience what God truly wants to give us, which is life and life in abundance.” - Henri Nouwen

JR:  You put a strong emphasis on our hunger for transcendence, is there any danger of overemphasizing God’s transcendence at the expense of his immanence? If so, what is the danger of emphasizing one over the other?  If not, why not?

Mark:  In Christianity we have the perfect balance between immanence and transcendence. As humans we will often fall into the trap of emphasizing one over the other. In previous generations we have over emphasized God’s transcendence, by doing so many grew up with a view of God who was distant and deistic. So in the eighties and nineties there was a kick back, a rediscovery of God’s immanence. However there is a whole new generation of young adults coming of age who have grown up in the immanence revolution of the eighties and nineties who see God not as distant and deistic, who see God as something akin to a permissive parent, who have grown up with ‘cool’ Christianity, who live in a secular culture which represses any idea of the transcendence. Thus we have a generation who is hungering for the transcendent, yet we have a generation of leaders who are still reeling from the overly transcendent view of God that they grew up with. Getting the balance is key.

JR:  Being a book about “the road” you interact with the metaphor of journey in interesting ways, in what ways is the journey a negative metaphor for you and in what ways is it a positive metaphor for you?

Mark:  One of the great mantra’s of our 21st century culture is that life is a journey. There is some truth to this, however when you peel behind the statement a worldview is revealed. A worldview which believes that the individual is at the centre of the universe. When we view life as a journey everything we discover along ‘the road’ is simply reduced to an experience to be devoured by the individual. People and life experiences simply become tourist sites on our personal journey’s. When you view life as a journey you can ‘move on’ from your Church, your faith, your marriage, your neighborhood, your past. The journey myth of our culture prefers the journey to the destination. Thus we never mature, never arrive, we remain in a retarded adolescence. When we see life as journey we skim the surface of life never committing, never bedding down, everything is on our terms.

Yet in the bible we do encounter a form of movement and journey. I believe a better term to describe the movement of discipleship is pilgrimage. In pilgrimage destination is key, Thomas Cahill says that the Jews changed history by seeing history as having a destination rather than just cyclical. In the bible movement involves a death to self, Abraham must die to his own agenda and mistrust. The people of God in order to get to the promise land must die to their idolatry, and Christ’s journey ends with his death on the Cross.

Later this week I will post Part 4 of my interview with Mark.  If you want to pick up the book, Amazon is selling it at 49% off right now!

HT:  Derick Hefner

Christ

Originally uploaded by Carlos Domingues

Creator of the universe,

you made the world in beauty,

and restore all things in glory

through the victory of Jesus Christ.

We pray that, wherever your image is still disfigured

by poverty, sickness, selfishness, war and greed,

the new creation in Jesus Christ may appear in justice, love, and peace,

to the glory of your name. Amen.

He has collected a number of his blog posts from the past two years and put them into an artful resource centered around for major categories, including:  casting, culture, communication and leadership.  Listen to how he describes the book.